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v=IX27qvPlHsI 11:01 <jstoldt> ah, one of those vertical wind mills... 11:01 <jstoldt> yeah, those are really neat from a technical POV.... where i come from we got shit load of those regular ones 11:02 <@cjdelisle> By rotating the vanes, the power extraction increases, friction decreases and you can use simple wind load calculations to figure power output. 11:02 <jstoldt> yeah. it's a very nice concept 11:02 <jstoldt> just like tide turbines 11:03 <@cjdelisle> Also you have a means to kill it by knocking off the timing or by allowing one vaine to rotate 90 degrees out of allignment you can let all of the air strait through. 11:04 <jstoldt> true... might be benefitial on high wind speed... the regular ones need to be shutdown when too much wind blows... 11:04 <@cjdelisle> Yup.
Basic wind load calculations tell just how much. 11:05 <jstoldt> well, for me personally the best concept for renewable energy is desertec 11:07 <@cjdelisle> How exactly does it work?
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v=IX27qvPlHsI 11:01 <jstoldt> ah, one of those vertical wind mills... 11:01 <jstoldt> yeah, those are really neat from a technical POV.... where i come from we got shit load of those regular ones 11:02 <@cjdelisle> By rotating the vanes, the power extraction increases, friction decreases and you can use simple wind load calculations to figure power output. 11:02 <jstoldt> yeah. it's a very nice concept 11:02 <jstoldt> just like tide turbines 11:03 <@cjdelisle> Also you have a means to kill it by knocking off the timing or by allowing one vaine to rotate 90 degrees out of allignment you can let all of the air strait through. 11:04 <jstoldt> true... might be benefitial on high wind speed... the regular ones need to be shutdown when too much wind blows... 11:04 <@cjdelisle> Yup.
Basic wind load calculations tell just how much. 11:05 <jstoldt> well, for me personally the best concept for renewable energy is desertec 11:07 <@cjdelisle> How exactly does it work?

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12:21 <cjdelisle> *CNC mills. 12:22 <cjdelisle> Just the idea of everyone having a mill and codes being passed around like free software. 12:22 <jstoldt> i don't know about that concept... in fact, i am still trying to figure out a good translation for mill that makes sense to me ;) 12:23 <cjdelisle> milling machine. 12:23 <jstoldt> yeah, i think i know what you mean now... at least the mill part... but what about codes` 12:23 <cjdelisle> (Bridgeport) 12:23 <jstoldt> ?
14:47 <jstoldt> well, if you hash some hundreds of mega bytes of data twice it might still be a lot of cpu time 14:47 <cjdelisle> xwiki:Main.WebHome.this.attachments.30579\.jpg.30579\.jpg 14:47 <+sburjan`> pe net 14:47 <+sburjan`> wrong windows again :) 14:47 <+sburjan`> *window 14:47 <cjdelisle> You get a collision. 14:47 <cjdelisle> this makes the collision impossible. 14:48 <cjdelisle> Remove this and it will be impossible without nested spaces and improbable with them. 14:48 <+sburjan`> I don't understand the concep of nested spaces 14:48 <cjdelisle> You have a space called Main 14:48 <+sburjan`> *concept 14:49 <cjdelisle> inside of that you have a space called Another. 14:49 <cjdelisle> Inside of that a document called WebHome. 14:49 <cjdelisle> The fullName is xwiki:Main.Another.WebHome 14:49 <+sburjan`> but afaik we don't have nested spaces atm 14:50 <cjdelisle> correct. without using "this" we would close the door on adding them in the future. 14:50 <cjdelisle> (Or accept a collision bug) 14:50 <+sburjan`> but do we want this in future ?
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12:21 <cjdelisle> *CNC mills. 12:22 <cjdelisle> Just the idea of everyone having a mill and codes being passed around like free software. 12:22 <jstoldt> i don't know about that concept... in fact, i am still trying to figure out a good translation for mill that makes sense to me ;) 12:23 <cjdelisle> milling machine. 12:23 <jstoldt> yeah, i think i know what you mean now... at least the mill part... but what about codes` 12:23 <cjdelisle> (Bridgeport) 12:23 <jstoldt> ?
14:47 <jstoldt> well, if you hash some hundreds of mega bytes of data twice it might still be a lot of cpu time 14:47 <cjdelisle> xwiki:Main.WebHome.this.attachments.30579\.jpg.30579\.jpg 14:47 <+sburjan`> pe net 14:47 <+sburjan`> wrong windows again :) 14:47 <+sburjan`> *window 14:47 <cjdelisle> You get a collision. 14:47 <cjdelisle> ~this makes the collision impossible. 14:48 <cjdelisle> Remove ~this and it will be impossible without nested spaces and improbable with them. 14:48 <+sburjan`> I don't understand the concep of nested spaces 14:48 <cjdelisle> You have a space called Main 14:48 <+sburjan`> *concept 14:49 <cjdelisle> inside of that you have a space called Another. 14:49 <cjdelisle> Inside of that a document called WebHome. 14:49 <cjdelisle> The fullName is xwiki:Main.Another.WebHome 14:49 <+sburjan`> but afaik we don't have nested spaces atm 14:50 <cjdelisle> correct. without using "~this" we would close the door on adding them in the future. 14:50 <cjdelisle> (Or accept a collision bug) 14:50 <+sburjan`> but do we want this in future ?

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11:05 <+tmortagne> cjdelisle: commons is one project and it would not have the right to depends on any other xwiki project 11:05 <+tmortagne> s/project/top project/ 11:06 <+tmortagne> i don't see why they could not depends on each others 11:06 <evalica> has joined #xwiki 11:06 <+tmortagne> or why we should have some outside project limitation 11:07 <@cjdelisle> Well there must be some idea of "too much" dependency between the commons subprojects otherwise they will become the same as core. 11:08 <+tmortagne> cjdelisle: what i mean is that it's not a rule IMO it's just commons sense, when a project contains too much concept you separate it is several like we do all the time in core currently 11:08 <@cjdelisle> As far as outside projects I suppose it is alright not to impose any limit since outside projects are often what the commons projects are wrapping. 11:08 <mflorea> has joined #xwiki 11:09 <@cjdelisle> I suppose that is good enough.
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11:05 <+tmortagne> cjdelisle: commons is one project and it would not have the right to depends on any other xwiki project 11:05 <+tmortagne> s/project/top project/ 11:06 <+tmortagne> i don't see why they could not depends on each others 11:06 <evalica> has joined #xwiki 11:06 <+tmortagne> or why we should have some outside project limitation 11:07 <@cjdelisle> Well there must be some idea of "too much" dependency between the commons subprojects otherwise they will become the same as core. 11:08 <+tmortagne> cjdelisle: what i mean is that it's not a rule IMO it's just commons sense, when a project contains too much concept you separate it is several like we do all the time in core currently 11:08 <@cjdelisle> As far as outside projects I suppose it is alright not to impose any limit since outside projects are often what the commons projects are wrapping. 11:08 <mflorea> has joined #xwiki 11:09 <@cjdelisle> I suppose that is good enough.

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So from AS you can't go to the new page 11:50 <+sburjan> can't even see it was renamed, because only deleted icon appears. 11:50 <jstoldt> i see... well, its been a while since i've actually worked with XWiki now ;) 11:50 <+cjdelisle> yes, it was just something that came to mind 11:50 <+sburjan> IMO it's inconsistent 11:50 <+jvelociter> sburjan: you should check if a JIRA exists and report it if not 11:50 <+jvelociter> we've talked about it already 11:51 <+sburjan> ok, I'm gonna look 11:51 <+jvelociter> having a "page renamed" event 11:51 <jstoldt> to be honest, i don't like the concept of add new, remove old to boot with... 11:51 <jstoldt> it struck me a little odd all the time i used XWiki 11:52 <+sburjan> yes, Raluca reported it 11:53 <jstoldt> not just that but also not putting the old page to removed pages... 11:53 <+sburjan> even if it's not the same scenario 11:54 <+sburjan> gonna report it 11:57 <jstoldt> is sergio going to join soonish?
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So from AS you can't go to the new page 11:50 <+sburjan> can't even see it was renamed, because only deleted icon appears. 11:50 <jstoldt> i see... well, its been a while since i've actually worked with XWiki now ;) 11:50 <+cjdelisle> yes, it was just something that came to mind 11:50 <+sburjan> IMO it's inconsistent 11:50 <+jvelociter> sburjan: you should check if a JIRA exists and report it if not 11:50 <+jvelociter> we've talked about it already 11:51 <+sburjan> ok, I'm gonna look 11:51 <+jvelociter> having a "page renamed" event 11:51 <jstoldt> to be honest, i don't like the concept of add new, remove old to boot with... 11:51 <jstoldt> it struck me a little odd all the time i used XWiki 11:52 <+sburjan> yes, Raluca reported it 11:53 <jstoldt> not just that but also not putting the old page to removed pages... 11:53 <+sburjan> even if it's not the same scenario 11:54 <+sburjan> gonna report it 11:57 <jstoldt> is sergio going to join soonish?

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17:35 <vmassol> needs to move classloader in commons though 17:36 <+tmortagne> yep 17:38 <+tmortagne> we could find a way to make include macro a bit less dependent on wiki concept, like some API to get the XDOM of a target resource whatever this resource it and do all the context jingling in events like we do for script macros 17:38 <vmassol> we can also have 2 include macros 17:38 <vmassol> a generic one with less featrures 17:39 <+tmortagne> yep 17:39 <vmassol> and a xwiki one that extends it 17:39 <vmassol> tmortagne: didn't see your message re the macro move.

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Forgive me for the slow answers sometimes. 19:02 <qwebirc77569> not a problem at all, family always comes first anyways :) 19:04 <@cjdelisle> I think $doc.display() gets the "selected object" from the document (which is a bad concept IMO) 19:05 <@cjdelisle> getObject(String classname) < that will get the first object of the given class 19:06 <@cjdelisle> #set($obj = $doc.getObject('MyClass')) 19:06 <@cjdelisle> $obj.getProperty($prop.getName()) < try that 19:14 <qwebirc77569> ahh wait. im doing something wrong because thats not working. the last line you sent goes inside the foreach right?
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Forgive me for the slow answers sometimes. 19:02 <qwebirc77569> not a problem at all, family always comes first anyways :) 19:04 <@cjdelisle> I think $doc.display() gets the "selected object" from the document (which is a bad concept IMO) 19:05 <@cjdelisle> getObject(String classname) <-- that will get the first object of the given class 19:06 <@cjdelisle> #set($obj = $doc.getObject('MyClass')) 19:06 <@cjdelisle> $obj.getProperty($prop.getName()) <-- try that 19:14 <qwebirc77569> ahh wait. im doing something wrong because thats not working. the last line you sent goes inside the foreach right?

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17:26 <vmassol> JuanDaugherty: you shouldn't use workspaces 17:26 <vmassol> it's been retired as you know 17:26 <vmassol> and we've integrated several of its features in XE 17:26 <vmassol> (and no I haven't worked on the design of workspaces) 17:27 <JuanDaugherty> I meant the concept with the URL I just gave, not jvelociter's project 17:27 <JuanDaugherty> besides it's not being supported, why shouldn't I use it?

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I update the blog (and I updating the administration app) just for the proof of concept 11:43 <vmassol> ok good 11:43 <vmassol> thanks 11:46 <pturcotte> has quit 12:11 <+tmortagne> sburjan: BTW I added some stuff in the demo UI of EM yesterday and this morning 12:11 <+tmortagne> no new features, just exposing more information 12:23 <jvdrean> has quit 12:27 <@cjdelisle> restarting myxwiki to enable debug logging on the velocity engine to find where the macro is redefined. 12:28 <vmassol> k 12:33 <+sburjan> tmortagne: I will test it next week 12:33 <+sburjan> guys, it seems we are getting spammed on the dev list 12:33 <vmassol> sburjan: used to get spam I think 12:33 <+sburjan> with forgery web sites 12:33 <vmassol> hmm unless my spam filter is removing them 12:34 <+sburjan> [email protected] 12:34 <+sburjan> is the sender e-mail address 12:34 <vmassol> yep I'ver emoved that user 12:34 <vmassol> check the mails 12:34 <vmassol> they must be old 12:34 <+sburjan> 3 days ago 12:34 <vmassol> yep 12:34 <+sburjan> cool 12:34 <vmassol> that's old :) 12:38 <+sburjan> ;) 12:44 <@cjdelisle> 2011-09-15 10:43:49,548 [http://evrueppurr.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Blog/] DEBUG o.x.v.i.DefaultVelocityEngine - Velocimacro : added VM panelheader: source=/templates/macros.vm 12:45 <@cjdelisle> foundit 12:45 <vmassol> nice catch!
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I update the blog (and I updating the administration app) just for the proof of concept 11:43 <vmassol> ok good 11:43 <vmassol> thanks 11:46 <pturcotte> has quit 12:11 <+tmortagne> sburjan: BTW I added some stuff in the demo UI of EM yesterday and this morning 12:11 <+tmortagne> no new features, just exposing more information 12:23 <jvdrean> has quit 12:27 <@cjdelisle> restarting myxwiki to enable debug logging on the velocity engine to find where the macro is redefined. 12:28 <vmassol> k 12:33 <+sburjan> tmortagne: I will test it next week 12:33 <+sburjan> guys, it seems we are getting spammed on the dev list 12:33 <vmassol> sburjan: used to get spam I think 12:33 <+sburjan> with forgery web sites 12:33 <vmassol> hmm unless my spam filter is removing them 12:34 <+sburjan> [email protected] 12:34 <+sburjan> is the sender e-mail address 12:34 <vmassol> yep I'ver emoved that user 12:34 <vmassol> check the mails 12:34 <vmassol> they must be old 12:34 <+sburjan> 3 days ago 12:34 <vmassol> yep 12:34 <+sburjan> cool 12:34 <vmassol> that's old :) 12:38 <+sburjan> ;) 12:44 <@cjdelisle> 2011-09-15 10:43:49,548 [http://evrueppurr.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Blog/] DEBUG o.x.v.i.DefaultVelocityEngine - Velocimacro : added VM panelheader: source=/templates/macros.vm 12:45 <@cjdelisle> foundit 12:45 <vmassol> nice catch!

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CalebJamesDeLisl - (20:28): they double sanitized &lt; it seems like there ought to be "smart" escapes which will detect already escaped stuff and skip it. npm - (20:29): the article is good in that it shows how wasteful the entire pattern "concept" is... and the pages of code and bugs it causses...... is replaced by a simple language feature that eliminates the need for contorting yourself into a "pattern" CalebJamesDeLisl - (20:32): I get the idea that patterns are often fads like we had object oriented until people realized that everyone makes incompatible objects.

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CalebJamesDeLisl - (20:39): * and you can't load classes CalebJamesDeLisl - (20:40): Constructing arbitrary pointers breaks that concept. nickless joined #xwiki at 20:40 gvallarelli - (20:42): CalebJamesDeLisl: yep gvallarelli - (20:43): I love subtitles CalebJamesDeLisl - (20:43): A paper I read a while back was about cryptanalysis on the nvidia gpu. http://eecm.cr.yp.to/pc109-20090901.pdf gvallarelli - (20:43): CalebJamesDeLisl: you study and read a lot of things, I hope you study CS :) CalebJamesDeLisl - (20:44): I guess I do.
CalebJamesDeLisl - (20:46): It's really neat stuff, there's a whole community around the concept of "object capability security" gvallarelli - (20:50): CalebJamesDeLisl: interesting I'm watching it right now anamarias joined #xwiki at 20:55 sdumitriu joined #xwiki at 20:56 gvallarelli - (21:35): CalebJamesDeLisl: I was thinking that using immutable data structures improve a lot security because it's impossible to corrupt data, so functional languages are more secure than side effect slave programming languages CalebJamesDeLisl - (21:37): Looking up side effects, still a bit ambiguous, can you give me your definition?
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